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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:03 am
by Peter Armstrong
When controlling SEA_APP I treat the above subject Shelves as follows:

IFR A/C departing South and cruise alt above 15000 From KPAE – I hold on to these and treat them the same as departures from KSEA, departing the Tracon at 15000 or close to the border(they are NOT in the SHELF)
. For a smooth transition from climb to cruise, I usually handoff to CTR at about 12000 or within 5 miles of the Tracon Border (whichever comes first) or, to unicomm.

From KOLM – I hold on to these and hand them to CTR/Unicomm at about 6000 or close to the shelf border (for the same reasoning) (IN the SHELF) not above the 8999

IFR A/C departing North and cruise alt above 15000
From KPAE – I treat them the same as the above South bound from KOLM (IN the SHELF = not above 8999)

From KOLM – I treat then the same as the above South Bound from KPAE (they enter the TRACON)

I hope this makes sense?

Happy controlling :banjo:



Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:12 pm
by Austin Wilkins
The document referring to these shelves explicitly states that PAE and OLM are up to 8,999ft for APP. 9,000 and above are owned by center.

See the document under Major Approach. This is not new news. Aircraft from PAE should never be handed off that late. Please ensure proper procedure is being followed from now on. It will all make sense in practice.


Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:16 pm
by Danny Evans
My opinion its better to give pilots a 5000ft buffer so ceiling of 15000ft I hand them over at 10,000 since it may take CTR a few second to accept, aircraft having to switch frequencies, and then aircraft climbing out fast that way they do not level at 15000 very long if at all. That gives pilots climbing at 5000fpm a minute and pilots climbing at 2500fpm 2 minutes to get over before having to level off.


Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:55 am
by Frank Miller
In fact, from real-world controllers, I understand it is not uncommon for Approach to hand off departures to Center even earlier than 10,000. Once a departure is in their climb, on course and free of conflict, it is acceptable to initiate the hand-off to Center. This can be as early as passing 3,000 or 4,000. Center need not accept the handoff until later, of course, and if they are busy they may wait until the a/c is through 10,000. This technique when applied to KOLM and KPAE is a good way to ensure control is with Center well before the aircraft leaves the S46 airspace at 9,000.

One thing that informed my thinking about the shelves is the reason they exist in the first place! So far as I understand it, they are there because the radar coverage from the S46 Tracon is poor for those areas (while Center has far better coverage). Once you appreciate that (and assuming you have the requisite degree of respect for VATSIM as a simulation) you can see how crucial it is to ensure you hand off soon enough. The converse holds for accepting handoffs from Center.



Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:23 pm
by Austin Wilkins

You are correct. It is best practice to hand them off once they are climbing and not in conflict. It makes life on Center must easier, as I am sure you have experienced. It is up to the Center controller when to accept the handoff, but initiating that handoff as early as possible is what we should be doing, as pursuant to the real world.